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	Comments on: One Ingredient to Make Your Fiction Timeless	</title>
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	<link>https://authorkristenlamb.com/2010/06/one-ingredient-to-make-your-fiction-timeless/</link>
	<description>Author, Blogger, Social Media Jedi</description>
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		<title>
		By: One Ingredient to Make Your Fiction Timeless &#124; Write Fiction Right &#124; Scoop.it		</title>
		<link>https://authorkristenlamb.com/2010/06/one-ingredient-to-make-your-fiction-timeless/#comment-935</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[One Ingredient to Make Your Fiction Timeless &#124; Write Fiction Right &#124; Scoop.it]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Apr 2013 21:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warriorwriters.wordpress.com/?p=618#comment-935</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] To create riveting fiction we must put our characters in real danger continuously. They just about solve one problem only to realize they opened a door to a new and even worse problem.&#160; [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] To create riveting fiction we must put our characters in real danger continuously. They just about solve one problem only to realize they opened a door to a new and even worse problem.&nbsp; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ex Lit Prof		</title>
		<link>https://authorkristenlamb.com/2010/06/one-ingredient-to-make-your-fiction-timeless/#comment-934</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ex Lit Prof]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warriorwriters.wordpress.com/?p=618#comment-934</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I couldn&#039;t agree more with what you say about conflict as the key ingredient of good narrative.  My favourite novel and movie for illustrating this point (I used to teach a course on literature &#038; film) is The Maltese Falcon, in the which the characters are continually deceiving each other and coming to blows.  On a personal level as well, I love the story (my grandmother reminds me of the femme fatale), as I was reflecting in my blog the other day.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more with what you say about conflict as the key ingredient of good narrative.  My favourite novel and movie for illustrating this point (I used to teach a course on literature &amp; film) is The Maltese Falcon, in the which the characters are continually deceiving each other and coming to blows.  On a personal level as well, I love the story (my grandmother reminds me of the femme fatale), as I was reflecting in my blog the other day.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kristen Lamb		</title>
		<link>https://authorkristenlamb.com/2010/06/one-ingredient-to-make-your-fiction-timeless/#comment-933</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kristen Lamb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 12:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warriorwriters.wordpress.com/?p=618#comment-933</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://authorkristenlamb.com/2010/06/one-ingredient-to-make-your-fiction-timeless/#comment-932&quot;&gt;Thomas&lt;/a&gt;.

Well, you certainly make a great case for literature and have valid points, but the angst I am talking about is the discomfit that we the writers create in our audiences/readers as they wonder if our hero will have the realizations he needs before it is too late.  If you do write a book to elucidate your points, you should let us know about it so we may benefit.

But, to expound on your point. In the case of Jesus, he didn&#039;t start his ministry and then hang on the cross the next day. There were a lot of events that led up to the Garden of Gesthemane to his Darkest Moment....a lot of choices where he could have gone the other way. He had fed the multitudes, healed the sick, cast out demons and ridden into town a Savior on a donkey, which made the crowds turning on him and demanding his death even more tragic. It was emotionally riveting that the crowds who&#039;d adored him the week before suddenly were demanding he be crucified instead a common dispicable criminal.

That time in the Garden would have meant nothing without the events ahead. Jesus also asks the Cup be taken from if it is possible, so for an average person who has never seen this story play out, there is a lot of&quot;tension&quot; (en lue of angst) as to whether or not Jesus will allow himself to be willingly captured, or if he will use his superpowers to go free. There are two equal choices...one is to use Jesus powers and be free and the other is to willingly go to a very bad end. Or, say you don&#039;t believe he had powers, he still had loyal followers who would have willingly whisked him off to a safe place. So still another choice...run to the safe place with Peter and pals or allow capture and crucifixion.

Twilight was full of the characters having angst...not the writing/movie creating angst in us. I could write a book on that, LOL.

All in all, you make excellent points. However, I think it takes tremendous skill to break formulas and rules. It is best to understand the rules before one goes breaking them. These blogs are to help with the fundamentals so that then writers can take those and create something uniquely their own. It is tough to create a machine to break the speed of light if you have no grasp of the Laws of Physics. Thank you so much for taking the time for such a thoughtful contribution!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://authorkristenlamb.com/2010/06/one-ingredient-to-make-your-fiction-timeless/#comment-932">Thomas</a>.</p>
<p>Well, you certainly make a great case for literature and have valid points, but the angst I am talking about is the discomfit that we the writers create in our audiences/readers as they wonder if our hero will have the realizations he needs before it is too late.  If you do write a book to elucidate your points, you should let us know about it so we may benefit.</p>
<p>But, to expound on your point. In the case of Jesus, he didn&#8217;t start his ministry and then hang on the cross the next day. There were a lot of events that led up to the Garden of Gesthemane to his Darkest Moment&#8230;.a lot of choices where he could have gone the other way. He had fed the multitudes, healed the sick, cast out demons and ridden into town a Savior on a donkey, which made the crowds turning on him and demanding his death even more tragic. It was emotionally riveting that the crowds who&#8217;d adored him the week before suddenly were demanding he be crucified instead a common dispicable criminal.</p>
<p>That time in the Garden would have meant nothing without the events ahead. Jesus also asks the Cup be taken from if it is possible, so for an average person who has never seen this story play out, there is a lot of&#8221;tension&#8221; (en lue of angst) as to whether or not Jesus will allow himself to be willingly captured, or if he will use his superpowers to go free. There are two equal choices&#8230;one is to use Jesus powers and be free and the other is to willingly go to a very bad end. Or, say you don&#8217;t believe he had powers, he still had loyal followers who would have willingly whisked him off to a safe place. So still another choice&#8230;run to the safe place with Peter and pals or allow capture and crucifixion.</p>
<p>Twilight was full of the characters having angst&#8230;not the writing/movie creating angst in us. I could write a book on that, LOL.</p>
<p>All in all, you make excellent points. However, I think it takes tremendous skill to break formulas and rules. It is best to understand the rules before one goes breaking them. These blogs are to help with the fundamentals so that then writers can take those and create something uniquely their own. It is tough to create a machine to break the speed of light if you have no grasp of the Laws of Physics. Thank you so much for taking the time for such a thoughtful contribution!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Thomas		</title>
		<link>https://authorkristenlamb.com/2010/06/one-ingredient-to-make-your-fiction-timeless/#comment-932</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 02:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warriorwriters.wordpress.com/?p=618#comment-932</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is my opinion that your use of the word angst is a poor one. Technically speaking a movie or book cannot have angst, only a character can. One could make a case that a movie or book could personify angst, but then you are getting deep into head games, and frankly better to not go there. Furthermore, the word has little if anything to do with conflict. They are not mutually interchangeable.

” We need angst.&quot; -- No we really don&#039;t! A book or movie full of angst is insipid. Case in point, Twilight -- no real conflict just full of angst.

&quot;The reader/audience needs to be on the edge of their seat from the inciting incident.&quot; -- Sorry but this is such a tired convention. I wish authors, publishers, and agents would stop touting this as if it was gospel. When you write to such a formulated process, you may indeed write a page turner, but you also run the very real risk of missing a moment of genius. It is a fallacy that human&#039;s learn in their greatest hour of strife. Self realizations usually occur in those moments of self reflection and quiet. Why, as writers, are we so hell bent on not allowing real life moments to happen to our meticulously crafted human characters? Jesus does not come to his greatest hour of doubt, suffering, and understanding hanging on a cross. He comes to it alone, praying to his father for enlightenment in a garden. I use this example not as Christian dogma, but as an archetype of good story telling.

The problem with Burton&#039;s Alice in Wonderland may indeed have been that there was nothing clearly at stake. However, and this is a big however, this assumes one is remaking a classic coming of age story amidst chaos and confusion into a formulaic piece of work. Climactic action setpiece, with an unlikely young warrior taking on a fearsome beast while hoards of CGI soldiers clash, smacks of The Lord of the Rings and any number of other such recent ventures. If this was indeed Burton&#039;s attempt, then yes he failed. Here comes another big however, I would argue that the failure of the piece is forcing Carroll&#039;s whimsical story into a formula it never was intended to fit in the first place.

&quot;To create riveting fiction we must put our characters in real danger continuously. They just about solve one problem only to realize they opened a door to a new and even worse problem. At the beginning they must fail because they are flawed. This flaw will be fired out by trial and tribulation by the end of the book. Our characters must be continually presented with two roads. One road ends the story and the other keeps our hero going toward the goal. But, the choices must be real choices.” -- I could write an entire book on why this may be true, but is horribly naive and formulated. Thousand upon thousands years of literature to learn from and this is what we have come to? Sad.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is my opinion that your use of the word angst is a poor one. Technically speaking a movie or book cannot have angst, only a character can. One could make a case that a movie or book could personify angst, but then you are getting deep into head games, and frankly better to not go there. Furthermore, the word has little if anything to do with conflict. They are not mutually interchangeable.</p>
<p>” We need angst.&#8221; &#8212; No we really don&#8217;t! A book or movie full of angst is insipid. Case in point, Twilight &#8212; no real conflict just full of angst.</p>
<p>&#8220;The reader/audience needs to be on the edge of their seat from the inciting incident.&#8221; &#8212; Sorry but this is such a tired convention. I wish authors, publishers, and agents would stop touting this as if it was gospel. When you write to such a formulated process, you may indeed write a page turner, but you also run the very real risk of missing a moment of genius. It is a fallacy that human&#8217;s learn in their greatest hour of strife. Self realizations usually occur in those moments of self reflection and quiet. Why, as writers, are we so hell bent on not allowing real life moments to happen to our meticulously crafted human characters? Jesus does not come to his greatest hour of doubt, suffering, and understanding hanging on a cross. He comes to it alone, praying to his father for enlightenment in a garden. I use this example not as Christian dogma, but as an archetype of good story telling.</p>
<p>The problem with Burton&#8217;s Alice in Wonderland may indeed have been that there was nothing clearly at stake. However, and this is a big however, this assumes one is remaking a classic coming of age story amidst chaos and confusion into a formulaic piece of work. Climactic action setpiece, with an unlikely young warrior taking on a fearsome beast while hoards of CGI soldiers clash, smacks of The Lord of the Rings and any number of other such recent ventures. If this was indeed Burton&#8217;s attempt, then yes he failed. Here comes another big however, I would argue that the failure of the piece is forcing Carroll&#8217;s whimsical story into a formula it never was intended to fit in the first place.</p>
<p>&#8220;To create riveting fiction we must put our characters in real danger continuously. They just about solve one problem only to realize they opened a door to a new and even worse problem. At the beginning they must fail because they are flawed. This flaw will be fired out by trial and tribulation by the end of the book. Our characters must be continually presented with two roads. One road ends the story and the other keeps our hero going toward the goal. But, the choices must be real choices.” &#8212; I could write an entire book on why this may be true, but is horribly naive and formulated. Thousand upon thousands years of literature to learn from and this is what we have come to? Sad.</p>
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		<title>
		By: amanda		</title>
		<link>https://authorkristenlamb.com/2010/06/one-ingredient-to-make-your-fiction-timeless/#comment-931</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[amanda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warriorwriters.wordpress.com/?p=618#comment-931</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So true! Without conflict, there is no story.  There are so many fantastic characters created (especially in short fiction), yet all they do is go around either crying in despair, or fist-pumping each other to death.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So true! Without conflict, there is no story.  There are so many fantastic characters created (especially in short fiction), yet all they do is go around either crying in despair, or fist-pumping each other to death.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Terrell Mims		</title>
		<link>https://authorkristenlamb.com/2010/06/one-ingredient-to-make-your-fiction-timeless/#comment-930</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terrell Mims]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warriorwriters.wordpress.com/?p=618#comment-930</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Our job as writers is to create thoughtful, endearing characters and do mean, and evil things to them.

I agree with you on Alice. The movie was so boring due to lack of conflict and her lack of arc (if you call realizing you aren&#039;t dreaming an arc.)

It was the conflict and my overall lovefest for Return of the King that kept me engaged when I watched it from midnight to 3 AM on opening night.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our job as writers is to create thoughtful, endearing characters and do mean, and evil things to them.</p>
<p>I agree with you on Alice. The movie was so boring due to lack of conflict and her lack of arc (if you call realizing you aren&#8217;t dreaming an arc.)</p>
<p>It was the conflict and my overall lovefest for Return of the King that kept me engaged when I watched it from midnight to 3 AM on opening night.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob Mayer		</title>
		<link>https://authorkristenlamb.com/2010/06/one-ingredient-to-make-your-fiction-timeless/#comment-929</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Mayer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warriorwriters.wordpress.com/?p=618#comment-929</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Conflict is rooted in differing motivations that lead to goals. Can be the same goal or different goals, but in pursuing those goals, your protagonist and antagonist come into conflict.
Angst comes from caring about the characters.  We care about their fate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conflict is rooted in differing motivations that lead to goals. Can be the same goal or different goals, but in pursuing those goals, your protagonist and antagonist come into conflict.<br />
Angst comes from caring about the characters.  We care about their fate.</p>
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